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Post by Ethan Dalloway on Mar 11, 2008 20:53:49 GMT -5
IN class on Thursday, I am watching this movie called Mickey Mouse Monopoly. I decided to watch it before class and what happens? This documentary disses Disney MAJORLY! Saying that they are anitfeminists, racist, and that Disney shows a deeper meaning in Disney. I was so upset to see this, but I am forced to, also, I am agreeing with SOME points. but not all.
Anyways, if any of you want to see it go onto YouTube put in the name of title and please reply here, be warned that you may be upset....
Also, please lets not use fowl language in this thread, for I know it is upsetting...
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Post by ~~Ursula~~ on Mar 12, 2008 9:27:40 GMT -5
Let me be the first to say, that Disney, although a very joyous name, is in fact a giant conglomerate and as such they do certain things like marketing and other such things. The bad things however are sadly sometimes true.
Do many disney fans get offended when things like this are spoken, of course we do, but do we ignore it and put it in the back of our head...I know I do...I have been a fan of disney for almost 20 years and in that period of time I have noticed that Disney can be considered a "fat-cat" organization...do I like it, hell no, will I still buy their products that have some of my favorite disney characters on them, in them, etc., yes I will...Videos like this won't stop me from being a disney fan...no way in hell...it;s just a reminder that Disney is like any other big name conglomerate and I'll stand by everything I have just typed.
~Ursula
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Post by Ethan Dalloway on Mar 12, 2008 20:30:55 GMT -5
I agree. I know some of the things on that documentary is true. For example the Native American parts. Me being half Native American i take some offense to Peter Pan which is why it is at the bottom of the list of things I watch. So...as others have said it is hard to distinguish what is true with them and what is not.
But as we all know Disney is a buisness all in all and what happens? The public attacks them. In all honesty this is the first real complaint someone has had with Disney that I have seen. Other than others saying that was a bad movie.
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Post by mcrxlover94 on Mar 12, 2008 20:54:32 GMT -5
As for the Native American one, you have to consider the times. Peter Pan came out in the 1950s which back then was okay to say things like that. But they changed the view of Native Americans so much in Pocahontas where they were viewed more as good people.
One thing that bothered me was how they said Disney manipulated the way children play. I can remember having several Disney toys and I NEVER went by the movies. I liked to make up my own adventures with the characters. I remember having my Disney Princess Dolls all meet. It was actually fun. And they say Disney kills creativity. For me it inspired my creativity. I write stories and a lot of the magic was given from the inspiration of Walt Disney who made all of these wonderful Fantasyworlds.
And of course Disney is a corporation seeking to make money. If they don't make money how can we expect new things from them? But I will admit some things they push too far {High School Musical}. But they are stopping Direct to DVD films which is going to help a bit.
I'm surprised they didn't attack Song of the South. I have seen that movie and I didn't find it racist at all. I even had a friend growing up {Still one of my closest friends today} and he was black. I remember watching Song of the South with him. I had a copy and we watched it one day. He liked it and after I watched this video last night it got me thinking about him and the movie. So I called him over today and him, Mowgli/Pocahontas/Oliver and I watched it. Now at age 15, he still didn't find it racist. He actually thought that Uncle Remus was a kind man and it showed a nice relationship between a white boy and a black man for the time.
Some of those people were just attacking the races in Disney. They either focused on the ones from the time where they were okay and didn't even mention how they changed the view over time, like with Pocahontas. The latino one bugged me. They made a strong, spunky latino girl in Atlantis. Again changing the view. But they only focused on Tito. Mowgli is half latino {Hard to believe if you've seen her =D} and she didn't find anything wrong with Tito. And she loves Audrey. And the monkeys in The Jungle Book. They were not supposed to represent blacks, just Jazz Singers. And if you want to know, yes I am white. I think people were over analyzing Disney too much. But I will admit the Aladdin 'Arabian Nights' one was just wrong. I love the movie Aladdin its one of my favorites of all time. But considering the time, they should not have put that in.
But these are just my opinions. Yes I do tend to have rather strong opinions about things like this. I will admit some of those views are true but I had been aware of that prior to viewing this video. This does not change my view of Disney one bit. I still love Disney with all of my heart. -The Mad Hatter
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Post by Ethan Dalloway on Mar 12, 2008 21:22:45 GMT -5
Oh I am not saying I don't. I am a huge Disney fanatic. I always will be. I mean I plan on Disney helping me in a career. But again, some of the issues are true, but I mean these people got me frustrated over the fact that they analyzed it soooo much that they were trying to kill Disney in a way. Which I think will never happen.
One thing I thought was funny was that they said "Disney controls most of the media we see and they only show what they want us to see." Now, why would they show about the killing on Big Thunder Mountain? Wouldn't that hurt them? It was dumb at that point. I now understand the semi deeper meanings in Disney, but still. Disney is my life, I annoy my friends and family for that reason...
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Post by ~~Ursula~~ on Mar 14, 2008 11:00:45 GMT -5
This whole thing with Race has gotten way out of hand with Disney...I've seen those movies and find them not racist, but dramatized a little....FOR EXAMPLE: I am an American Italian...was I offended when "Bella Notte" was sung by a fat somewhat stereotypical italian waiter and chef....NO...i found it hilarious and a favorite singer of mine actually sang it himself, Lou Monte, for the record!...it's these certain people who take it to heart and are offended by it to NO END!!...It irks me soo much that people repeatedly say "oh that's racist"...it's a talking dog...HOW IS THAT RACIST!!! ...people just annoy me when it comes to stuff like that!...will it ever change...maybe with the release of "The Frog Princess" it will. It's disney's First African American princess...so one can only think of asking, "Will it offend?"....WHO KNOWS....and frankly...who cares...it's an animation...not real life...to those who think disney is racist...get over yaself...they may have certain things that make it plausible, but that quite frankly is somewaht circumstantial evidence!
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Post by The Great Prince of the Forest on Mar 14, 2008 16:18:18 GMT -5
I just watched the documentary on Youtube, and here's what I have to say about it in a "review." I thought that the people in the documentary did a good job in their attempt to dive deep into their analysis of Disney, yet I think they might have gone a little too far in their analysis like the Mad Hatter suggests. Some of the things they discussed I never really thought of in that way as I view Disney films. For example, when one person talked about the scene in "Aladdin" when Jasmine tries to distract Jafar with very little seduction, that person claims to view it as a message to say that anyone could manipulate his or her body to get what he or she wants. I can see why the person thinks that, but that's not how I would normally view Disney female characters such as Jasmine. As a child from viewing the many works of Disney, I did not, in any way, feel any sense of offensiveness nor sensitivity toward the things that could be viewed as sexist or racist. In fact, I didn't (and still don't) look the works of Disney carefully for any dangerous messages such as sexism nor racism that could be hidden within. Rather, I view them as a form of entertainment, not necessarily as something to learn from the wrong way. Some of the things Disney has shown in their works may give people the wrong idea and have them make stereotypes that aren't really true. The documentary does explain how there are some kids who visit the Plymouth Plantation and have these ideas in their heads from what they have seen from the Native American scenes in "Peter Pan" (like all Native Americans sit cross legged with a stern look on their faces and that they all live in tipis). I'm sure "Peter Pan" isn't the only film that portrayed Native Americans in a negative way, yet I sometimes question to myself why it seems that one thing (for example, the Native American scene in "Peter Pan") tends to lead toward making a general judgement about another thing as a whole (the Native American race). I also agree with Mad Hatter on how it seems like modern Disney today is more into making money instead of focusing so much on the art of filmmaking (well, I sometimes think that, but I don't really let it get to me). I think it does make sense that Disney is also active in policing their images and protecting their representation (like pulling off Youtube clips or entire movie uploads; yet, from one aspect, the illegal uploads of movies onto the internet can probably gain interest in a lot of people to go buy a VHS or DVD copy of it later (there are a few people I know who have done that).) I think if Walt Disney would be still alive (which I doubt he would), he might not feel very pleased with how the company is running (he even said that he expressed not having any sequels be made off his classic films, but the company ignored him and did it, anyway). The point I'm trying to get across is that Disney company should perhaps change their minds, think of their recent flops of today and realize that it's not a question of handdrawn animation or CGI, but a question of ideas and dreams. If they don't understand the inner spirit of their founder Walt Disney himself, they would probably never be able to make such masterpieces like "Bambi," "Dumbo," and "The Lion King" ever again. I will also agree with Ethan and Mad Hatter that the people in the documentary went a little overboard in attacking and criticizing Disney for what it does to the media and it's appeal to children and familes who love to watch them. I admit that Disney may have its flaws (just about every company does), but it's not my nature to really attack those flaws because of it. In conclusion of my "review," this documentary has given me something to think about on the Disney company and how it works with the viewing audiences, yet I don't plan to take the people in the documentary's opinions too seriously. Disney has been entertaining people from around the world for more than 70 years, and I continue to respect it for it's legacy that it has left on everyone and its attempt to continue that legacy for generations to come.
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Post by transton on Mar 14, 2008 18:23:26 GMT -5
I am offended that they would insult D*sney. I have been one ever since I saw my first Disney movie, which was The Little Mermaid. Disney inspired me to want to get into voice acting and art and cartooning. And I do beleive that now-a-days they push their products way too far, like for example when Hatter said High School Musical. I love that Walt Disney wanted to inspire little children to step out of their boundries and beleive they could be a Princess or a Prince or whatever they wanted. But now they have taken his dream and turned it into a money making scam. I wish Walt was still alive so he could stop this and make the Disney films the way they should be. And Disney is not racist, just stereotypical at times and we have to remember that in the older films people where okay with the fact of how they symbolized pirates and indians, or a fat italian man. We see worse stuff than this in the media, take those extremely offensive television shows like Family Guy that take race and the subject of aids as a play matter, when it is all too serious and not a joke. But people were and are and will be messed up when it comes to things like religion and race. Like another example: People made up a big deal about The Frog Princess (an upcoming Disney Animated movie) being african american and the prince being Europeon. It does not matter the race, it is that they love each other and want to be together without any harm done. It is like that in real life too. I'm sorry if I seem like i'm making a big deal over this, but it is real things that should not be critisized.
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Post by yourxlove on Mar 14, 2008 18:36:41 GMT -5
Wow very well spoken by all. I agree with all of you. Those people must have WAY too much time on their hands to be over analyzing something like Disney. They are treating the cartoon characters like real people.
One thing that bothered me is that they said how every girl needs to be saved. Yet they didn't even mention how some heroines saved the hero. Like Esmeralda, Megara, Mulan and Ariel. And that toy thing was just stupid. Like Hatter said, I also never followed the movie. Its so boring to play games that way.
And as for the controversy over the prince being European and the princess being African-American in The Frog Princess, I see no problem with that. Why can't we have mixed race couples? Like Pocahontas and John Smith. I actually think its great that Disney is making another mixed race couple.
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Post by Wendy Darling on Mar 20, 2008 1:05:14 GMT -5
I agree that these reviews were very well analyzed. And though I have only seen the first three parts of the video, I think I understand the message they are presenting.
Like Ethan, I do kinda take offense of how they animate the Chinese citizens in Mulan as gangly, fat, etc. I feel that the animators are symbolozing that Chinese people are "pigs" like Chien Po obsessing over food or being short like Yao. At the same time, I do kinda take offense in how square their features were, because my face is pretty square (which I inherited from my father). But me being of Chinese heritage, I enjoyed the movie because it gave out a message that a girl can do anything. However, I really don't take offense about the fact that all the Chinese females are depicted as housewifes who care for their children and are literally forced to marry someone to lead a successful life. This was all according to history. I won't go down in detail why this was part of the histories of marriage. It's wrong--I'm telling you.
I do agree with the Hatter that we should consider the times since Peter Pan did come out in the 50's. And I'm not really defending the film nor am I against the idea of racism (even though it's my favorite Disney film). I haven't read the actual book written by J.M. Barrie. But who knows, maybe the Native Americans were depicted as that in his book? I mean, in the 2003 live action Peter Pan, they had a strong resemblance to the Disney Peter Pan.
Disney's pretty much making adaptions of famous fairytales. They're just editing the story lines to make the story more meaningful for the audience to relate to. And I think we should respect Disney for that.
I do disagree on the fact that the Disney girls really are helpless as many people think they are. I have a totally different opinion on that. For Snow White, her tendency of being TOO nice led her to her sleeping death, which was a very tragic mistake that anyone could make. And, she could pretty much take care of herself through cooking and all that cleaning. And Belle who almost died from the pack of wolves, it's actually a real thing that could happen, even to a guy (not trying to be sexist or anything). And Cinderella was NOT helpess nor was she in need of a man to the rescue. She pretty much rescued herself from Lady Tremaine because she actually DREAMED. And although I have pretty much outgrown of the princesses, I still think every one of them has strengths.
I don't remember if this was mentioned in the documentary, but I have to say that the princesses are NOT perfect. Many people think they are through their talents, their happily-ever afters, and their beauty. They do have flaws--like any other person, which makes it easier for the audience to relate to them more easily. They struggled and they worked hard to find their happily ever afters. It didn't just come to them just like that. It came because they believed they would find it someday. And I think we should respect them for that. Sure, they may seem like very lovely girls whom anyone would want to befriend, but we should just judge them by their inner character.
All in all, I am saying to completely disregard whatever bothers you and enjoy your favorite films. In some ways, Peter Pan does bother me by depicting such savages (i.e. The lost boys) and a father scolding his children to the top of his lungs. Those commentors in the documentary should just let their child enjoy it. Better yet, they should really get the message of Walt Disney engraved in their brains. Disney does not intend to promote bad examples shown in their films. They want to inspire people that a little bit of magic can bring wonders into people's lives. Each film has its own theme or meaning that the audience can connect with in their own life. Disney has inspired many people, like myself, to dream big. Infact, they have shaped the inner characters of many people. Disney just wants to promote to everyone that happiness is something you'll have to find if it's something you really desire. It won't come to you just like that--you'll have to find it. Many people like myself choose to ignore such messages that may influence them negatively. The main key is to focus on your pleasant moments. And I think if something about the film bothers them, they should just look into the positive messages.
This documentary literally just ruins the magic for us Disney fans.
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Post by keiara on Mar 21, 2008 21:04:09 GMT -5
You guys are all very right. And I feel almost stupid posting because I know I won't be able to post as much as you guys. But I'm still gonna put in my two cents.
Ok, as you talked about earlier with the monkeys from The Jungle Book. Well, they weren't black at all. Uncle Louis was actually Italian. He was the first Italian used to sing in a Disney movie. I know because I am Italian. And on the subject of of Italians. I take no offense whatsoever towards Tony being fat and Italian in Lady and the Tramp. But, even though he is fat, he also has his co-worker who is a skinny Italian.
With Jasmine using seduction as a way to trick Jafar, I think it's so stupid to even bring up. It was just a way for Aladdin to go somewhere.
I almost wanted bust up laughing when heard that girl talk about how Beaty and the Beast is telling girls to say it's ok to abuse and violence. It's so stupid. The reason the storywriters made him that at first is just because of the way he looks and that he was isolated for so many years. With only his furniture to talk to. I think you and I would be pretty upset too. But the part that made me laugh the most in that segment was when at the very end of talking about Beauty and the Beast is when she said, "It's just, a horrible message." Ugh, boy did that get me laughing.
Well, that's all I can remember now. ~Kiara
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